(no subject)

[zana16]

An article on the origins of the bogus "death panel" thing: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/health/policy/14panel.html?_r=3&hp

You want to know who the real death panels are? The insurance companies as they now stand. The insurance companies who will not treat you if you have a pre-existing condition, will not cover you if it's going to cost them any money, and on a regular basis deny you the treatment your doctor knows is best because it's not "standard." "Standard" being "cheap."

My mother was diagnosed with cancer by an internationally renowned specialist out of network, and her insurance WOULD NOT ACCEPT that she had cancer FOR MONTHS because it was not one of their doctors who diagnosed her. A few short months later, she died of cancer.

Don't talk to me about death panels, Sarah Palin.

Comments

[melodyclark.livejournal.com]

That's why they picked the "death panels" -- they're trying to attack "them" (us, in other words) with our strongest argument, that HMOs ration out health care and decide who lives and dies.

They are monsters. I'll tell them who lives and dies. Rich people live. My dear friend Harry without insurance drops dead at 48.

[zana16.livejournal.com]

I just can't believe how many people buy into this bullshit. The people who honestly believe that this is going to result in Nazism. I was screaming "Godwin's Law! Godwin's Law!" at NPR all day yesterday. :)

Yes, uhhuh, right. Our black president is all over that Nazi shit. I believe that.

[finalrequiem.livejournal.com]

The problem is, I hear people against his healthcare plan reading specific pages and specific line items from the bill that indicate things like access to medical records, covering illegal immigrants, and where they are getting the basis of the Death Panels.

I'm not hearing him, nor anyone else who says it's not true, reading specifically from the bill.

The article you linked simply says it's not true. But I do not see it mention a specific page or specific item in the bill that disproves it.

Can you state a specific page?

Personally, I'm neither for nor against. I just am paying attention to the argument and asking myself who actually has specific information. Seems the people who are buying the bullshit are quoting specific parts of the bill. I saw one video on youtube of a lady reading from the bill word for word and some congressman said that wasn't true what she just read, and she read from the bill directly.

[zana16.livejournal.com]

There's an excellent article that I need to track down again. I'll try and find it today, but I'm late for work so it may be a little while.

[finalrequiem.livejournal.com]

That'd be nice, Obama is not arguing his point well. The people against his healthcare plan are reading specifics, he is just saying what his bill won't have. But at one point he admitted not reading the House bill, well that's the bill he is trying to pass. So it doesn't help his argument even MORE when you admit you haven't read something your trying to sell.

[zana16.livejournal.com]

Hey there, I don't want you to think I'm forgetting you. I searched for the article I read mentioned that did address some (not all) of the concerns that have been raised. And of course I couldn't find it. Blast! Though to be honest, since today was moving day and thus yesterday was packing day, I didn't spend a huge amount of time looking. I'll track it down for you, though.

Obama isn't arguing his point well -- when LaRouche is setting the tone of the conversation, you know something's wrong! It's a bit surprising to me, as Obama's PR is usually better than this.

To be honest, though, those who hate the bill could use some PR work as well: the way to get your message across is not to scream "Nazis!" at elected representatives. Nobody is going to engage in an actual conversation about issues that starts with being accused of wanting to murder millions of people.

[finalrequiem.livejournal.com]

It's okay if you didn't find the article, I just have alot of little observations about this whole thing. So I apolegize in advance for the rambling, Politics is not a one reason topic, it's never because of one thing something happens, but alot of little things. So if I seem like I am rambling, it's cause I've seen and heard alot of little comments in articles here and there that really make me question things...

My point is there is alot of misinformation on both sides, and Obama's arguements are not helping matters. But most of the things making them worse are his underlings words. Obama says that the bill will not cover illegal immigrants, meanwhile illegal immigrant rights groups love the bill and run around saying it will. Obama says you will have the freedom to keep your own insurance, meanwhile Pelosi says she loves the House Bill cause it leads to single payer.

I also really think most the negative polling on Obama can be credited to Pelosi seemingly undermining Obama's words, and if not Pelosi, alot of other Democrats are really making him look stupid. Pelosi is the one who started the Nazi argument, when she said the people protesting healthcare at these Town Hall meetings were like the Nazi Army. That's what started the healthcare people looking at what Nazi meant, and then they see that the Nazi's instituted a Stimulus in Germany, and took over the Automobile industry. Then they go, "Well if anyone is a Nazi, it's you." Then Pelosi said the protesters are Un-American for not liking Obama and the Government, yet about a 2 years ago, Pelosi and Hillary Clinton were quoted as saying you ARE American if you go against Bush and the government, well which is it?

Also it doesn't help that there are 4 versions of the Health Care bill either, and Obama says "my plan won't have these things" that people are complaining about. Well which one of the 4 is his plan? Which of the 4 does he endorse so we can focus on that bill, instead of the House Bill that is pissing everyone off. There's no specifics from him which is really hurting him, and it hurts him in my eyes when he tries to prove his town hall has no plants in it, then he gets a question from a 12 year old girl about why "mean people hate his healthcare plan" then someone finds out this girl has been seen near Obama many times before in other town hall meetings. And the White House staff blames the Secret Service for having Obama Groupies in the town hall meetings instead of real people against the bill. It doesn't help him, and doesn't help his credibility. All I can do is a big face palm and say "Geez..."

I don't blame Obama for all of this, but his staff and people who are on his side are the ones who have given Obama a lower approval rating then Bush did after his first 6 months. It all started with the stupid NYC flyover with an Empty Air Force One for a photo op and scaring most of New York cause they didn't tell anyone. Now it's gone all the way to now, with a Healthcare plan bill he says he hasn't read, which he says doesn't have certain things in it, when clearly it does.

Bottom line, Obama is the opposite of Bush, but not in a good way. Alot of people thought Bush was stupid, but people said "at least he had smart people around him". Obama is the smart one this time, and alot of really stupid people are surrounding him and to be honest, really ruining him.

I really mean this, and I remember that before he won the Presidency, Pelosi and some others really didn't like Obama cause he had different views on things. And I find it odd that Hillary hasn't fully closed her election offices from last year after she pulled out of the race.

You know that thing called the smell test? None of this passes the smell test. That's all I'm sayin.

[zana16.livejournal.com]

Looking for that article was pretty good proof of your point, that the press really hasn't addressed many of the points the protesters are raising. Since I've worked on the periphery of the press, I understand why -- there's no budgets these days for investigative reporting, and the bills are thousands of pages long, so reporters who need to churn out a story in the hopes of keeping their job this week just don't have the time -- but it's very frustrating, and frankly dangerous to the American people.

I do think there's been a lot of manipulation of misinformation by people who don't want to give up power. Which doesn't serve anybody's ends but theirs.

The reality is that even legislators who introduce a bill to the House or the Senate have never read it. They didn't write it, either. The people who wrote it were mostly their legislative assistants, and even an uncomplicated bill is rarely less than a few hundred pages. It's amazing the kind of crap that sneaks through when no one reads the bills! Because I live in DC, I applied for a few jobs on the Hill before I decided I didn't need that kind of disillusionment.